Oi Ranvita, amor.
Estou estarrecido por ter achado seu livro e entrado em contato.
(Gente, o livro é OS MÍSTICOS, por Ma Prem Ranvita que conta suas histórias reais, sobre suas aventuras como uma sannyasin, ela, o Raffek, seu companheiro e seus filhos e a comunidade e Osho, claro!)
Ao ler sobre o cristal que recebeu de algúem ligado ao Tibet pelo que entendi me lembrei de uma citrina que ganhei, deixada pelo Dalai Lama da primeira vez que ele veio à Alemanha.
A moça que fez um grupo que ofereci, de meditações, sumiu após me oferecer como depositário do cirstal (citrina, amarela). deixei a pedra numa valise que ainda está, após 8 anos, numa valise na Alemanha.
Tenho de ter essa valise de volta.
Quer vir à Alemanha? Já tenho alguma saudade de Poona também - mal dá pra chamar de saudade, tanta coisa tenho vivido.
Um abraço a todos e meus respeitos.
Abaixo, em INGLES, algo de OSHO que sinto fundamental para a vivência e saúde humanas.
Love a todos.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: RiverIIOsho@yahoogroups.com <RiverIIOsho@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 25/07/2010 07:42
Subject: [RiverIIOsho] Digest Number 863
To: RiverIIOsho@yahoogroups.com
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: RiverIIOsho@yahoogroups.com <RiverIIOsho@yahoogroups.com>
Date: 25/07/2010 07:42
Subject: [RiverIIOsho] Digest Number 863
To: RiverIIOsho@yahoogroups.com
Messages In This Digest (2 Messages)
- 1a.
- Re: Misunderstood message of Tantra From: Subhuti
- 2.
- Osho, do you believe in fighting injustice? From: Subhuti
Messages
- 1a.
Re: Misunderstood message of Tantra
Posted by: "Subhuti" subhuti@comcast.net subhutiii
Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:51 am (PDT)
Maria,
Good catch! What dribble, but it didn't slip by you! Thank you. I'm impressed.
Now let's see what Osho has to say about it...
*************************************************
Beloved Master,
Why has sex been a taboo in all the societies down the ages?
//Osho://
It is a very complicated question -- but very important too, worth going into. SEX IS THE MOST POWERFUL INSTINCT IN MAN. The politician and the priest -- they have understood it from the very beginning... that sex is the most driving energy in man. It has to be curtailed, it has to be cut.
IF MAN IS ALLOWED TOTAL FREEDOM ABOUT SEX, THEN THERE WILL BE NO POSSIBILITY TO DOMINATE HIM. To turn him into a slave will be impossible. Have you not seen it being done? When you want a bull to be yoked in a bullock cart -- what you do? -- you castrate, you destroy his sex energy.
AND HAVE YOU SEEN THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A BULL AND AN OX? What difference! An ox is a poor phenomenon: a slave. A bull is a beauty. A bull is a glorious phenomenon, a great splendor. See a bull walking -- how he walks like an emperor. And see an ox carrying a bullock cart.
THE SAME HAS BEEN DONE TO MAN. The sex instinct has been curtailed, cut, crippled. Now man does not exist as the bull, he exists like the ox. And each man is carrying thousand and one bullock carts. Look and you will find behind you thousand and one bullock carts. And you are yoked in them.
Why can't you yoke a bull? THE BULL IS TOO POWERFUL. If he sees a cow passing by, he will throw the bullock cart and you. And he will move to the cow. He will not bother a little bit who you are. And he will not listen. It will be impossible to control the bull.
SEX ENERGY IS LIFE ENERGY, IT IS UNCONTROLLABLE. And the politician and the priest are not interested in you: they are interested to channelize your energy into certain other directions. So there is a certain mechanism behind it. It has to be understood.
SEX REPRESSION -- TABOOING THE SEX -- IS THE VERY FOUNDATION OF HUMAN SLAVERY. And man cannot be free unless sex is free. Man cannot be really free unless his sex energy is allowed natural growth.
These are THE FIVE TRICKS THROUGH WHICH MAN HAS BEEN TURNED INTO A SLAVE -- into an ugly phenomenon, a crippled.
THE FIRST IS: KEEP MAN AS WEAK AS POSSIBLE IF YOU WANT TO DOMINATE HIM. If the priest wants to dominate you, or the politician wants to dominate you, you have to be kept as weak as possible.
IF IN CERTAIN CASES EXCEPTIONS ARE ALLOWED -- that is, when the services of fighting our enemy are needed, only then -- otherwise not. The army is allowed many things which other people are not allowed. The army is in the service of death; they are allowed to be powerful. They are allowed to remain as powerful as possible. They are needed to kill the enemy. Other people are destroyed; they are forced to remain weak in thousand and one ways. AND THE BEST WAY TO KEEP A MAN WEAK IS NOT TO GIVE LOVE TOTAL FREEDOM.
LOVE IS NOURISHMENT. Now the psychologists have discovered it, that if a child is not given love, he shrivels up into himself and becomes weak. You can give him milk, you can give him medicine, you can give him everything. Just don't give him love. Don't hug him, don't kiss him, don't hold him close to the warmth of your body. And the child will start becoming weaker and weaker and weaker. And there are more chances of dying than surviving.
What happens? Why? JUST HUGGING, KISSING, GIVING WARMTH -- somehow the child feels nourished, accepted, loved, needed; THE CHILD STARTS FEELING WORTHY; the child starts feeling a certain meaning in his life.
NOW FROM THE VERY CHILDHOOD WE STARVE -- WE DON'T GIVE LOVE AS MUCH AS NEEDED. Then we force the young men and young women not to fall in love unless they get married. By the age fourteen they become sexually mature. But the education may take more time – ten years more. Twenty-four, twenty-five years then they will be getting their MAs or PhDs or MDs. So we have to force them not to love.
SEXUAL ENERGY COMES TO ITS CLIMAX AT NEAR ABOUT THE AGE OF EIGHTEEN. Never again will a man be so potential, and never again will a woman be able to have a greater orgasm than she will be able near the age eighteen. But we force them not to make love.
We force boys to have their separate dormitories. GIRLS AND BOYS ARE KEPT SEPARATE. And just between the two stands the whole mechanism of police, magistrate, vice chancellors, principals, headmasters. They are all standing there just in between -- just holding boys not to move to the girls, holding girls not to move to the boys. Why? Why so much care is taken?
THEY ARE TRYING TO KILL THE BULL AND CREATE AN OX.
By the time you are eighteen, you are at the peak of your sexual energy, your love energy. By the time you get married, twenty-fifth, twenty-sixth, twenty-seventh -- and the age has been going on and on. The more cultured a county, the more you wait -- because more has to be learned. The job has to be found, this and that. BY THE TIME YOU GET MARRIED, YOU ARE ALMOST DECLINING IN YOUR POWERS. And you love -- but the love never becomes really hot. It never comes to the point where people evaporate; it remains lukewarm.
AND WHEN YOU HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO LOVE TOTALLY, YOU CANNOT LOVE YOUR CHILDREN -- because you don't know how. When you have not been able to know the peaks of it, how can you teach your children? How can you help your children to have the peaks of it? So down the ages, man has been denied love so that he remains weak.
Second trick through which man has been turned into a slave:
KEEP MAN AS IGNORANT AND DELUDED AS POSSIBLE SO THAT HE CAN BE EASILY DECEIVED. And if you want to create a sort of idioticness -- which is a must for the priest and the politician and their conspiracy -- then the best thing is NOT to allow man to move into love freely.
WITHOUT LOVE, A MAN'S INTELLIGENCE FALLS LOW. Have you not watched it? When you fall in love, suddenly all your capacities are at their peak, at their crescendo. Just a moment before you were looking dull. And then you have met your woman, and suddenly a great joy has erupted in your being -- you are aflame!
WHEN PEOPLE ARE IN LOVE THEY PERFORM AT THE OPTIMUM; when love disappears or when love is not there, they perform at their minimum. THE GREATEST INTELLIGENT PEOPLE ARE THE MOST SEXUAL PEOPLE. This has to be understood. Because love energy is basically intelligence. If you cannot love, you are somehow closed, cold... you cannot flow.
WHILE IN LOVE, ONE FLOWS. While in love, one feels so confident that he can touch the stars. That's why a woman becomes a great inspiration, a man becomes a great inspiration.
WHEN A WOMAN IS LOVED SHE BECOMES MORE BEAUTIFUL IMMEDIATELY, INSTANTLY. Just a moment before she was just an ordinary woman. When love has showered upon her, she is bathed in a totally new energy; a new aura arises around her. She walks more gracefully, a dance has come to her step. Her eyes have tremendous beauty now. Her face glows, she is luminous. And the same happens to the man.
When people are in love, they perform at the optimum; don't allow love -- they will remain at the minimum. When they remain at the minimum, they are stupid, they are ignorant. They don't bother to know. AND WHEN PEOPLE ARE IGNORANT AND STUPID AND DELUDED, THEY CAN BE EASILY DECEIVED. When people are sexually repressed -- love-wise repressed -- they start hankering for the other life. They think about heaven, paradise -- but they don't think to create the paradise here-now.
WHEN YOU ARE IN LOVE, THE PARADISE IS HERE-NOW. Then you don't bother. Then who goes to the priest? Then who bothers that there is a paradise? You are already there! You are no more interested. But when your love energy is repressed, you start thinking here is nothing, now is empty. Then there must be somewhere, some goal. Then you go to the priest and ask about heaven. And he paints beautiful pictures about heaven.
SEX HAS BEEN REPRESSED SO THAT YOU CAN BECOME INTERESTED IN THE OTHER LIFE. And when people are interested in the other life, naturally they are not interested in this life. AND TANTRA SAYS THAT THIS LIFE IS THE ONLY LIFE. The other life is hidden in this life. It is not against it, it is not away from it, it is in it. You go into it, this is it! You go into it and you will find the other too. God is hidden in the world. That is the TANTRA MESSAGE, a great message, super, incomparable. GOD IS HIDDEN IN THE WORLD! God is hidden here-now. If you love, you will be able to feel.
THIRD SECRET: KEEP MAN AS FRIGHTENED AS POSSIBLE. And the sure way is not to allow them love -- because love destroys fear. Love casteth out fear.
WHEN YOU ARE IN LOVE YOU ARE NOT AFRAID. When you are in love you can fight against the whole world. When you are in love you feel infinitely capable of anything. But when you are not in love, you are afraid of a small thing. When you are not in love you become more interested in security, in safety. When you are in love you are more interested in adventure, in exploration.
PEOPLE HAVE NOT BEEN ALLOWED TO LOVE BECAUSE THAT IS THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE THEM AFRAID. And when they are afraid and trembling they are always on their knees, bowing to the priest and bowing to the politician. It is a great conspiracy against humanity. It is a great conspiracy against you!
YOUR POLITICIAN AND YOUR PRIEST ARE YOUR ENEMIES! But they pretend that they are public servants. They say that we are here to serve you, to help you, to attain to a better life. "We are here to create a good life for you." And they are the destroyers of life itself!
FOURTH: KEEP MAN AS MISERABLE AS POSSIBLE -- because a miserable man is confused. A miserable man has no self-worth. A miserable man is self-condemnatory. A miserable man feels that he must have done something wrong. A miserable man has no grounding -- YOU CAN PUSH HIM FROM HERE AND THERE. He can be turned into a driftwood very easily.
And the miserable man is always READY TO BE COMMANDED, to be ordered, to be disciplined -- because he knows "On my own I am simply miserable. Maybe somebody else can discipline my life." He is a ready victim.
And FIFTH: KEEP MAN AS ALIENATED FROM EACH OTHER AS POSSIBLE, so that they cannot band together for some purpose of which the priest and the politician may not approve. Keep people separate from each other; don't allow them too much intimacy. When people are separate, lonely, alienated from each other... they cannot band together.
AND THERE ARE THOUSAND AND ONE TRICKS HOW TO KEEP THEM AWAY. For example, if you are holding the hand of a man -- you are a man and you are holding the hand of a man -- and walking on the road singing, you will feel guilty. Because people will start looking at you: "Are you gay, homosexual or something?"
TWO MEN ARE NOT ALLOWED TO BE HAPPY TOGETHER. They are not allowed to hold hands; they are not allowed to hug each other. They are CONDEMNED AS HOMOSEXUALS. Fear arises.
If your friend comes and takes your hand in his hand, you look around -- somebody is seeing or not? And you are just in a hurry to drop the hand. You shake hands in such a hurry. Have you watched it? You just touch each other's hand and shake and you are finished. YOU DON'T HOLD HANDS, YOU DON'T HUG EACH OTHER, YOU ARE AFRAID.
DO YOU REMEMBER YOUR FATHER HAS HUGGED YOU EVER? Do you remember? After you became sexually mature, your mother has not hugged you? Why? FEAR HAS BEEN CREATED. Young man and mother hugging maybe some sex arises between them, some idea, some fantasy. Fear has been created.
The father and the son, the father and the daughter, no. The brother and the sister, no. The brother and the brother, no. PEOPLE ARE KEPT INTO SEPARATE BOXES -- WITH GREAT WALLS AROUND. Everybody is classified, and there are thousand-and-one barriers.
YES, ONE DAY AFTER TWENTY-FIVE YEARS OF ALL THIS TRAINING YOU ARE ALLOWED TO MAKE LOVE TO YOUR WIFE. But now the training has gone too deep into you, and suddenly you don't know what to do. How to love? You have not learned the language. It is as if a person has been denied to speak for twenty-five years -- just listen. Twenty-five years he has not been allowed to speak a single word. And then suddenly you put him on a stage and tell him that give us a great lecture. What will happen? He will fall there, then and there. He may faint, he may die. Twenty-five years of silence and now suddenly he is expected to deliver a great lecture; it is not possible. This is what is happening.
Twenty-five years of anti-love, of fear... and then suddenly you are allowed, legally -- a license is issued that now you can love this woman. This is your wife, you are her husband, and you are allowed to love. BUT WHERE THOSE TWENTY-FIVE YEARS OF WRONG TRAINING ARE GOING TO GO? They will be there.
Yes, you will love. You will make an effort, a gesture. It is not going to be explosive; it is not going to be orgasmic; it will be very tiny. THAT'S WHY YOU ARE FRUSTRATED AFTER MAKING LOVE TO A WOMAN. Ninety-nine percent people are frustrated after love -- more frustrated than they have ever been before.
And they feel what? There is nothing; it is not true. Now, first the priest and the politician has managed that you should not be able to love. And then they come and they preach that there is nothing in love. And suddenly their preaching looks right. Their preaching looks exactly in tune with your experience. FIRST THEY CREATE THE EXPERIENCE -- OF FUTILITY, OF FRUSTRATION -- THEN THEIR TEACHING. And both look logical together: one piece. This is a great trick, the greatest that has ever been played upon man.
These five things can be managed by a single thing -- and that is THE LOVE TABOO. It would be possible to accomplish all these objectives BY SOMEHOW PREVENTING PEOPLE FROM LOVING EACH OTHER. And the taboo has been done in such a scientific way. It is a great piece of art, this taboo. Great skill and great cunningness has gone into it; it is really a masterpiece. It has to be understood, this taboo.
First, it is indirect. IT IS HIDDEN, IT IS NOT APPARENT -- because whenever a taboo is too obvious, it will not work. The taboo has to be very hidden, so you don't know how it works. The taboo has to be so hidden that you cannot even imagine that anything against it is possible. The taboo has to go into the unconscious, not in the conscious.
How to make it so subtle and so indirect? THE TRICK IS: GO ON TEACHING THAT LOVE IS GREAT. The first thing -- so people never think that priests and the politicians are against love. Go on teaching that love is great, that love is the right thing. AND DON'T ALLOW ANY SITUATION WHERE LOVE CAN HAPPEN, don't allow the opportunity.
DON'T GIVE ANY OPPORTUNITY. And go on teaching that food is great, that eating is a great joy -- eat as well as you can -- but don't supply anything to eat. Keep people hungry and go on talking about love. So all the priests go on talking about love... Love is praised as highly as anything -- just next to God -- and deny any possibility of its happening. DIRECTLY ENCOURAGE IT; INDIRECTLY, CUT ITS ROOTS. This is the masterpiece work.
No priest talks about how they have done the harm. IT IS AS IF YOU GO ON SAYING TO THE TREE THAT: "BE GREEN, BLOOM, ENJOY" -- and go on cutting the roots. So the tree cannot be green. And when the tree is not green you can reprimand the tree and say, "Listen! You don't listen, you don't follow us. We go on saying be green, bloom, enjoy, dance." And meanwhile, you go on cutting the roots!
Love is so much denied. AND LOVE IS THE RAREST THING IN THE WORLD -- IT SHOULD NOT BE DENIED. If a man can love five persons, he should love five. If a man can love fifty, he should love fifty. If a man can love five-hundred, he should love five-hundred. LOVE IS SO RARE THAT THE MORE YOU CAN SPREAD IT, THE BETTER.
But there are great tricks. YOU ARE FORCED IN A NARROW, VERY NARROW, CORNER. You can love only your wife, you can love only your husband; you can love only this, you can love only that. The conditions are too much. It is as if there is a law that you can breathe only when you are with your wife, you can breathe only when you are with your husband. Then breathing will become impossible. Then you will die. And you will not be able to breathe even while you are with your wife or with your husband. You will have to breathe twenty-four hours. The more you breathe, the more you will be able to breathe while you are with your spouse. Be loving!
Then there is a trick: THEY TALK ABOUT HIGHER LOVE AND THEY DESTROY THE LOWER. And they say the lower has to be denied... the bodily love is bad, the spiritual love is good. Have you ever seen any spirit without a body? Have you ever seen a house without the foundation? THE LOWER IS THE FOUNDATION OF THE HIGHER.
The body is your abode. The spirit lives in the body, with the body. You are an embodied spirit and an ensouled body. You are together. THE LOWER AND THE HIGHER ARE NOT SEPARATE. They are one, rungs of the same ladder. This is what Tantra wants to make clear that: THE LOWER HAS NOT TO BE DENIED, THE LOWER HAS TO BE TRANSFORMED INTO THE HIGHER. The lower is good.
If you are stuck with the lower, the fault is with you, not with the lower. The lower rung of a ladder has nothing wrong in it. If you are stuck with it, you are stuck. It is something in you -- you move. SEX IS NOT WRONG, YOU ARE WRONG IF YOU ARE STUCK THERE. Move higher! The higher is not against the lower; the lower makes it possible for the higher to exist.
And these tricks have created many other problems.
Each time you are in love, somehow you feel guilty, a guilt has arisen. WHEN THERE IS GUILT, YOU CANNOT TOTALLY MOVE INTO LOVE. The guilt prevents you, it keeps you hoarding. Even while making love to your wife or your husband, there is guilt -- you know this is sin, you know you are doing something wrong; saints don't do it -- you are a sinner. So you cannot move totally even when you are allowed superficially that you can love your wife. THE PRIEST IS HIDDEN BEHIND YOU IN YOUR GUILT FEELINGS. He is pulling you from there, pulling your strings. When guilt arises, you start feeling that you are wrong. You lose self-worth, you lose self-respect.
And another problem arises: WHEN THERE IS GUILT YOU START PRETENDING. Mothers and fathers don't allow their children to know that they make love -- they pretend. THEY PRETEND THAT LOVE EXISTS NOT. Their pretension will be known by the children sooner or later. When the children come to know about the pretension they lose all trust, they feel betrayed, they feel cheated.
AND FATHERS AND MOTHERS SAY THAT CHILDREN DON'T RESPECT THEM -- YOU ARE THE CAUSE OF IT. How can they respect? You have been deceiving them in every way. You have been dishonest, you have been mean. You were telling them not to fall in love -- "Beware!" And you were making love all the time. And the day will come... sooner or later they will realize that even your father, even your mother is not true with you. So how they can respect?
FIRST GUILT CREATES PRETENSION, THEN PRETENSION CREATES ALIENATION WITH PEOPLE. Even the child -- your own child -- will not feel in tune with you. There is a barrier: your pretension. And when you know that everybody is pretending... one day you will come to know that you are pretending, so are others pretending. When everybody is pretending, how can you relate?
OSHO
The Tantra Vision
Vol 2, Ch #4: Trust cannot be betrayed
am in Buddha Hall
- 2.
Osho, do you believe in fighting injustice?
Posted by: "Subhuti" subhuti@comcast.net subhutiii
Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:59 pm (PDT)
----- Original Message -----
From: Maria
To: oshoelcamino@gruposyahoo.com
Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 12:00 PM
Subject: [oshoelcamino] osho video
osho bilingual video...
http://www.buscandofotos.com/yT7CSeU3YDB4t/OSHO:-Con-la-Meditaci%C3%B3n-la-vida-ser%C3%A1-pura-dicha/
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"Não estamos buscando nenhum paraíso nas nuvens. Se ele estiver lá, nós o apanharemos, mas primeiro precisamos construir um paraíso aqui na terra; essa será nossa preparação. Se pudermos viver num paraíso na terra, então, esteja ele onde estiver, será nosso." Osho
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